Camaro hunting

[kevm14]

Curb weight:
2012 ZL1: 4120 lb
2015 1LE: 3884 lb
2016 SS: 3718 lb

See I told you they were close. My case for the 1LE:
- Nicely splits the chassis difference between the gen 5 and gen 6
- Save a solid $5k and possibly more for equivalent mileage/condition, I think
- Most likely the depreciation will be better than either
- Performance you can access, though the gen 6 probably is more approachable than the ZL1
- More simple vehicle, though a gen 6 1SS probably isn't too bad unless you detract points for the direct injection on the LT1
- And yeah the 1LE is more special and rare - I care about this, you may not

[kevm14]

Amazingly I searched and found just the thread I wanted: https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=403142

And I'd like to say I had a good sense about this one. I need to read the thread but some comments:

I just traded my 1LE in on a ZL1. They are way different. I had no idea the switch would be so drastic. Not so much the engine performance; I assumed that would be a big switch. I mean more along the lines of the handling and ride. The 1LE feels like a race car when you drive it. Stiff, light, and precise. The ZL1 rides like a tank compared to the 1LE. Soft, heavy, and takes more effort to corner. All depends on what you are looking for.

GM did a great job with the 1LE. I'm really impressed and couldn't appreciate the 1LE enough before.

Love the ZL1 power though!

I recently test drove a ZL1 after DD'ing my 1LE for 2 years and tracking a few times and I could feel the weight difference immediately. The ZL1 would have to be handled, whereas the 1LE you can place in the corner. The 1LE I think is more of a "driver's car" whereas the ZL1 is more of a common person power/muscle car. Not anything against running a ZL1 at a track, but the 1LE is for the purist.

There is also the power difference and how much more effortlessly the ZL1 could get up and go. I like to turn, therefore the 1LE is a better car for me. After my cam goes in, that will be all the power I need to get out of corners and into the straights.

This guy nailed what I have been trying to say. The question is, where do your tastes fall?

I have run 100's and 100's of laps at laguna in my 1le with a best of 1:43xx I have run 98 laps in a ZL1, best I could do was 1:45xx because the extra speed in the straights caused earlier braking, in my case. The biggest difference is the handling to me as the 1LE has excellent feedback in any situation, I could never tell what the ZL1 was about to do. Just my $.02....

Just in case the message is being diluted with all this track talk - a communicative chassis is JUST as useful and enjoyable on the street as it is on the track. I know Bob will back me up on that.

[kevm14]

Disagree. I like the ZL1, but even before the 1LE was released I knew it was not for me and cost was not the determining factor. It was the weight. I was (gulp) planning on purchasing a Boss302 for track use, and then the 1LE became reality.

Weight is flat out the enemy of any track car no matter the HP. It eats tires, heats up brakes and can remove the fun factor on track. I have seen more ZL1 front tires chewed up than any other car at the track. Car are getting heavier and heavier, but I refuse to track anything over 4000lbs and truthfully the Camaro is pushing my mental line in the sand as it sits.

I said this already, too. That said, I maintain the 1LE is not "useless for the street" though the ZL1, again, has some Challenger in it for ride comfort and sort of power to handling ratio. Again, that may be exactly what you are looking for.

[kevm14]

On going from a ZL1 to a 1LE (the original question):

I did!

And I do not regret it. I miss some things about the ZL1. But I am very, VERY happy with the 1LE.

[kevm14]

I have driven a CTS-V, Boss302, Hellcat (the one from the Jalopnik video Ralph Gilles brought out) Porsche GT3, Turbo S, Caymen, Lotus (all flavors) Ferraris, Maseratis, Noble M400, Viper, all flavor Corvette, Tesla roadster and list goes on and on. All of them at speed on a road course. This will be my 18th year instructing and I held a license and raced NASA for a long period in the middle.

WITH all of that being said (felt I needed to qualify my opinion here ) I have driven both the 1LE and ZL1 back to back on a road course. The ZL1 flat out feels heavier. The 1LE turn in and rotates like a much lighter car than it is. The biggest sign that is weighs 3800lbs + is when you hit a straight and it doesn't accelerate in the fashion you want it to.

The 1LE to ZL1 is similar in mind to the Tesla Roadster to Lotus Elise. Same basic platform, but the Tesla had 911 Turbo like acceleration out of a corner compared to the NA Lotus...but the Lotus was way more enjoyable to drive. Does it mean the Tesla was slower on the track, I really can't recall, but the amount of effort it took to wheel it around the track, the Lotus was just more fun to drive.

I am not "bashing" the ZL1 as there is no doubt it can post faster lap times than a 1LE stock for stock, but I want my track car to have an inherit fun factor when I drive it. The ZL1 on track didn't do it for me......nor did the Hellcat for that matter, even with all 707hp.

[kevm14]

The power was nice, obviously...but I never used it all. Not enough road or on-ramp to do it...and on the road course - frankly, it scared me. I feel like I can wring out the 1LE without achieving light speed, and that was more fun.

I miss Performance Traction Management. Competition mode on the 1LE is very good - but PTM was fantastic. Especially in wet conditions.

Finally, I miss the Magnetic Ride control. Amazing balance of comfort and sport-stiffness. But I left in in sport mode most of the time anyways, so I can't say I noticed a difference between that and the 1LE's ride.

That's it. I like the style of the 14 better, the dash/nav better, Recaro seats better, square wheel/tire setup better, balance and agility of the 1LE better, etc.

[kevm14]

I honestly never even considered Z/28 (until they started offering it for $59K during that end of year sale).

Ok I said $55k. $59k is close!

[bill25]

Lightning Laps:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/l ... ar-feature

21 - LL3 - Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 (2017) - 2:50.1 #11 (2017)
26 - LL3 - Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 (2015) - 2:50.9 #8 (2014)
41 - LL2 - Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE (2017) - 2:54.8 - #10 (2016)
50 - LL2 - Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 (2013) - 2:57.5 - #7 (2013)
76 - LL2 - Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE (2013) - 3:01.5 - #7 (2013)
91 - LL1 - Chevrolet Camaro 1LE (2017) - 3:04.0 - #10 (2016) (6cyl)
139 - LL2 - Chevrolet Camaro SS (2010) - 3:09.5 - #4 (2010)

The ZL1 is a full 4 seconds faster around the track than the 1LE "track" car and 12 seconds faster than the regular SS... LOL It is 2.7 seconds slower than the 2016 1LE, so probably even or 1 second slower than the 2016 SS (unfortunately not tested), unless the 2016 1LE is way better than the regular SS (probably not) in which case the ZL1 would be a tick faster than the 2016 SS.

Also, for reference since all I hear about is how awesome the Corvette Z06 is with the LS7:
55 - LL3 - Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (2007) - 2:58.2 - #2 (2008)
The ZL1 beat it. So did the Z/28 with the same engine... years later, but by 7 seconds.
26 - LL3 - Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 (2015) - 2:50.9 - #8 (2014)
Also for reference:
24 - LL3 - Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 (2012) - 2:50.7 - #6 (2012)



So the ZL1 is basically 2016 Camaro SS performance with the look of the Gen 5. It is faster than an LS7 vette, but not really even close to the ZR1. But the Z/28 is .2 seconds away from the 2012 ZR1, which is, interesting.



I agree that the MR is overkill, and would prefer standard suspension.

[kevm14]

55 - LL3 - Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (2007) - 2:58.2 - #2 (2008)
The ZL1 beat it. So did the Z/28 with the same engine... years later, but by 7 seconds.

But a 2011 C6 Z06 did 2:53.5. Same exact engine. It's all chassis tuning stuff. I never said the early C6 Z06 were wonderful in terms of this new age chassis stuff. They are fast though.

[kevm14]

50 - LL2 - Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 (2013) - 2:57.5 - #7 (2013)
76 - LL2 - Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE (2013) - 3:01.5 - #7 (2013)

Not to make excuses but C&D themselves wrote this:

Almost nothing upsets this chassis, though we did manage to waste a second or so with a poorly timed three-two downshift at the end of sector three, causing a bit of predictable oversteer on hot, well-worn tires. Remove that one regrettable slip-up and add a fresh set of Goodyears, and you have a sub-three-minute car for the low, low price of $37,930.

Sub-three, call it 3:00 if you must. 2.5 seconds is 2.5 seconds but the ZL1 has 154 more HP!