Hating on the Focus RS

[kevm14]

Great video! Anyone who understands anything about engine design could have predicted this easily. When BMW started turbocharging their engines a few years ago, they had the same exact problems. Great explanation and photos.

Probably shouldn't take a Youtube comment at 100% face value so, research says:
http://youwheel.com/home/2016/03/27/det ... er-engine/

Ah.

Key Changes
There are two main changes that distinguish B58 from N54/55:
1. The B58’s cylinder block is closed deck; while N54/55 are open-deck;
2. B58 is using air-to-liquid intercooler, compared to N54/55’s air-to-air intercooler.
Closed Deck Design
Let’s first take a look at B58’s closed deck design. By nature, closed deck cylinder block is much stronger than the open deck type, therefore it is more suitable for high load and high pressure application. This explains why for the S55 engine (used on M3/M4), BMW needs to convert the N55’s open deck block to a closed deck design. This is also the reason why BMW never officially boost N54/55’s output to over 340 hp (because the block simply can’t take that much without risking its structural integrity).

By the way the N54 is now 10 years old. The B58 came out for model year 2016.

So more evidence in my favor - the block design is a problem and I think Ford screwed up on that. It's particularly maddening when you realize that both hard use and aftermarket modification (even just some tuning) is quite likely with these cars.

I really hope it doesn't take Ford 10 years to fix this.

[bill25]

The video I linked already mentions the head gasket issue.

I didn't like the video you posted. That guy was just inflammatory without any actual investigation or facts except engines failed early. Yes the part about the open deck was ok, but the rest of the video was obnoxious. It was basically a bitchfest about Ford. I don't really understand. Ford is replacing the engines at no cost. What else are they supposed to do? At the point in time of the video probably didn't know the actual cause yet otherwise they would probably determine the batch of cars (or all of the cars) and have a head gasket recall since they would know that all of those engines are about to grenade which is far more expensive to replace.

The article I posted discusses an actual investigation to the cause of the problem, and what they found makes a lot of sense. I don't disagree about the open deck thing, which admittedly sounds like a bad idea.

What was more interesting to me was: Why did Ford waste money making 2 turbo engines of the same displacement specifically for performance cars? Seems like a waste in Development/R&D. It also seems to have caused a manufacturing issue since they are so close.

[kevm14]

Yeah the beginning was snarky. I think that is acceptable given historically how these kinds of issues are addressed by people. It turns out that when people like a car, they are sensitive to snark (remember the LT1 issues in the C7 that we haven't heard about for years now?). I'm sure if we looked back many people went completely off the rails with quotes like "This is why you don't buy a GM." "Oh yeah, my last GM car, a 1985 Celebrity, was a piece of shit - I guess nothing has changed." "This is why they went bankrupt" (this one never ceases to amaze). And then people pile on. Or argue and defend.

You could replace the brand and model with anything and then apply these to any brand with a new model suffering from some kind of issue like this. It's all the same shit. As a GM guy I feel I've had to suffer through a lot of bullshit over the years, so I am not cutting the Focus RS any special slack.

Anyway, he claims there was an updated part number rather than just the wrong part number. I wonder if they first used the Mustang gasket on purpose and then updated it quietly. Also, this car had a warped head AND block. That's not a head gasket issue. He said the warpage made a head/block gap of 0.057 between cylinders 2 and 3. That is HUGE.

[kevm14]

And before we get into a pissing contest of whether GM is more or less deserving of ire than Ford (or anyone else) let me assure you that I can dig up quality issues like this from basically every OEM.

[bill25]

You could replace the brand and model with anything and then apply these to any brand with a new model suffering from some kind of issue like this. It's all the same shit. As a GM guy I feel I've had to suffer through a lot of bullshit over the years, so I am not cutting the Focus RS any special slack.

I don't disagree. I care more about how Ford, or the company handles the issue though. Cars are extremely complicated, and developed relatively quickly. I am not surprised that new models get released with issues. As long as it isn't something that is safety related, I am generally ok with it as long as the company owns up and fixes it. We'll see how this plays out.

Also, my Z24 block cracked due to a head gasket/overheating, so things can happen with overheating (warping etc.), especially in a motor that requires such cooling. Yes this is a lot, but we don't know how long they attempted to drive after the failure.

I am not giving them a pass, I am just waiting to see the reaction and how it is handled.

And... Yeah, it would be bad if they were using the Mustang gaskets from the beginning not realizing that the coolant ports were being blocked. LOL.

[bill25]

And before we get into a pissing contest of whether GM is more or less deserving of ire than Ford (or anyone else) let me assure you that I can dig up quality issues like this from basically every OEM.

Not necessary. I agree that they all can have issues. I care more with how they deal with them.

[kevm14]

I agree. So a productive discussion would be to rate how these issues have been dealt with over the years.

[kevm14]

https://youtu.be/CuGodKdRLpE

This seems like a systemic engineering deficiency at Ford. I mean think about block strength on the 302 or 4.6. Not THIS bad though.

[bill25]

Wait... I think I heard him say the 2.0 is way stronger, and didn't blow until 800HP (around 4:08). I have that 2.0 in my car... My car looks better than a Focus RS, just need to fix it only being FWD.

[kevm14]

Yes the 2.0 block is considerably stronger. I don't think Ford went to a weaker block just for the hell of it. I think they needed the open deck design for cooling because they are asking a lot of a 4 cylinder engine. They probably could have done more even with the open deck design but that would add weight. But yeah, I suspect that while the 2.0 block may be a great basis for a drag racing build, it is probably insufficient for sustained power output from a cooling perspective. #V8orGoHome