Clearly he knows these cars.yes important rear adjustment , thats why i use park brake often.
Caprice engine swap?
Re: Caprice engine swap?
I texted Stu about the rear discs and parking brake. I got a promising answer:
Re: Caprice engine swap?
Electronic level control was standard. He said it has air shocks but he used that manual kit with a schrader valve mounted at the rear, filling manually. So that may require some work to restore. Hopefully the original system is still present. I had to restore the system on my 95 (in 2008) so I don't know how much trouble the 78 system will be (in 2017).
I do like a functional ELC system so I will at least look into it.
I do like a functional ELC system so I will at least look into it.
Re: Caprice engine swap?
Lots of little nuggets in here.
- 1978 was apparently the first year for driver's door mounted power seat controls. This is kind of interesting as my Caprice has them in the same location, as did my Fleetwood. Today, only really fancy cars get this location.
- Match mounted tires. I first learned about this 10+ years ago via the Hunter GSP9700 road force balancing machine. Little did I know OEMs were match mounting way back in the late 70s. For that "new car ride"
- Sounds like the 6-way power driver's seat was standard. Power passenger seat was optional and also optional were power seat recliners. Again he doesn't think it has the power recliners.
- Delay wipers with mist setting are standard. Adjustable delay was optional. Man.
- Push to reset trip odometer standard. That's a feature worth pointing out?? What year was this, 1978? Oh...
- Quartz digital clock, complete with ugly font. They did not foresee that in the future we'd have a renewed obsession with analog timepieces.
- They didn't figure out power mirrors yet. I will survive but I guess 1978 is just too old for that.
- Opera lamps standard on Fleetwood Brougham. Sweet. I hope they work.
- Power antenna. With switch to let you leave it at a certain height without retracting.
- Don't forget about the fiber-optic lamp monitors!
There's a bunch of stuff from the options list that looks cool.
- Theft deterrent
- EFI, of course
- TWO kinds of sunroof. I don't know that either tilts up for venting.
- Vinyl roof was optional? Weird
- Auto door locks (when in drive).
- Illuminated entry. Basically you push the door handle button when the door is locked and everything lights up. Including a light that shines on the lock cylinder for you. This is cool. I think my parents' old 90 Continental did this so it's cool to see in 1978.
- Low fuel light and vacuum-based fuel efficiency display (lights, nothing fancy)
- As I said, power recliners. The wording makes it seem like it was separately available on the driver's seat vs the passenger seat.
- Lots of radio options. Probably none of them were "HiFi". No fewer than 6 head units actually.
- Digital signal seeking radio. This was actually pretty fancy for the late 70s.
- Some of the integral CB stuff is cool. It plays through the car speakers. And can be set to override your AM/FM radio program of a strong signal comes in so you can listen to the radio between CB time. Pretty cool.
- I don't believe you could get a compact cassette head unit yet. Only 8 track.
- Wire wheels. I love these. I bet I can't really afford to buy them if I found a set.
- Cruise was optional?
- Defroster was optional
- Twilight sentinel. I want this. I hope it has it. I'd expect it to but who knows. Just turns the headlights on automatically and turns them off on a delay when you shut the car off. I like this.
- Guide-Matic. Auto dimming high beams when it detects oncoming cars at night. My parents 90 Continental definitely had this.
- Adjustable delay wipers.
- Heavy duty ride and handling. Special order. Oh man. FE2? They didn't even want the old people to accidently order it so they made it hard. I bet this was awesome in its day, if it was anything like an F41 Caprice of the era.
- Posi. I read this is very rare and prone to wearing out. Sounded like Auburn-style.
- Tilt and telescoping wheel. Says optional...I'd think most have this. I'd be annoyed if it does not.
- Thermometer on driver's side mirror optional (with illumination because of course). Come on! This is trademark Cadillac! It better have this.
- Trumpet horn. I think this is my favorite 4 note horn. It really better have this. I demand it.
Kind of excited to find any options it has that he didn't mention (the opposite would be sad of course).
- 1978 was apparently the first year for driver's door mounted power seat controls. This is kind of interesting as my Caprice has them in the same location, as did my Fleetwood. Today, only really fancy cars get this location.
- Match mounted tires. I first learned about this 10+ years ago via the Hunter GSP9700 road force balancing machine. Little did I know OEMs were match mounting way back in the late 70s. For that "new car ride"
- Sounds like the 6-way power driver's seat was standard. Power passenger seat was optional and also optional were power seat recliners. Again he doesn't think it has the power recliners.
- Delay wipers with mist setting are standard. Adjustable delay was optional. Man.
- Push to reset trip odometer standard. That's a feature worth pointing out?? What year was this, 1978? Oh...
- Quartz digital clock, complete with ugly font. They did not foresee that in the future we'd have a renewed obsession with analog timepieces.
- They didn't figure out power mirrors yet. I will survive but I guess 1978 is just too old for that.
- Opera lamps standard on Fleetwood Brougham. Sweet. I hope they work.
- Power antenna. With switch to let you leave it at a certain height without retracting.
- Don't forget about the fiber-optic lamp monitors!
There's a bunch of stuff from the options list that looks cool.
- Theft deterrent
- EFI, of course
- TWO kinds of sunroof. I don't know that either tilts up for venting.
- Vinyl roof was optional? Weird
- Auto door locks (when in drive).
- Illuminated entry. Basically you push the door handle button when the door is locked and everything lights up. Including a light that shines on the lock cylinder for you. This is cool. I think my parents' old 90 Continental did this so it's cool to see in 1978.
- Low fuel light and vacuum-based fuel efficiency display (lights, nothing fancy)
- As I said, power recliners. The wording makes it seem like it was separately available on the driver's seat vs the passenger seat.
- Lots of radio options. Probably none of them were "HiFi". No fewer than 6 head units actually.
- Digital signal seeking radio. This was actually pretty fancy for the late 70s.
- Some of the integral CB stuff is cool. It plays through the car speakers. And can be set to override your AM/FM radio program of a strong signal comes in so you can listen to the radio between CB time. Pretty cool.
- I don't believe you could get a compact cassette head unit yet. Only 8 track.
- Wire wheels. I love these. I bet I can't really afford to buy them if I found a set.
- Cruise was optional?
- Defroster was optional
- Twilight sentinel. I want this. I hope it has it. I'd expect it to but who knows. Just turns the headlights on automatically and turns them off on a delay when you shut the car off. I like this.
- Guide-Matic. Auto dimming high beams when it detects oncoming cars at night. My parents 90 Continental definitely had this.
- Adjustable delay wipers.
- Heavy duty ride and handling. Special order. Oh man. FE2? They didn't even want the old people to accidently order it so they made it hard. I bet this was awesome in its day, if it was anything like an F41 Caprice of the era.
- Posi. I read this is very rare and prone to wearing out. Sounded like Auburn-style.
- Tilt and telescoping wheel. Says optional...I'd think most have this. I'd be annoyed if it does not.
- Thermometer on driver's side mirror optional (with illumination because of course). Come on! This is trademark Cadillac! It better have this.
- Trumpet horn. I think this is my favorite 4 note horn. It really better have this. I demand it.
Kind of excited to find any options it has that he didn't mention (the opposite would be sad of course).
Re: Caprice engine swap?
This option list reads almost exactly like my Fleetwood. 16 years later...
Re: Caprice engine swap?
That's one of the things I like about the ~78 vintage. Freshly downsized platform (we always joke about frame/suspension compatibility going alllll the way back to 77, well, this is a 78) and the options list was still luxury grade. By the 90s many of these things were quite common.
I also like the last of the heavy duty Cadillac driveline. I think I will enjoy this car.
I also like the last of the heavy duty Cadillac driveline. I think I will enjoy this car.
Re: Caprice engine swap?
I know you are on your way to get the Fleetwood, but this actually looks like it could be decent with some exterior clean up. Interior looks good. Price is right at $1800.
https://greenville.craigslist.org/cto/6069328740.html
https://greenville.craigslist.org/cto/6069328740.html
Re: Caprice engine swap?
It might not be too late for this one...
Re: Caprice engine swap?
I didn't buy it. Short answer: the exterior was not as nice as I was lead to believe and the issues overall compounded significantly.
Pros:
- Started, ran and drove well. It was actually very satisfying to drive at part throttle and off the line. It is amazing what it accomplished with a 2.28 rear. Lots of torque right off idle. Flooring it left me underwhelmed as I expected but this car would have no trouble keeping up with modern traffic. The trans shifted exactly as it should at WOT, just firm enough to not feel like it wouldn't last but still comfortable. Great powertrain overall.
- Seat condition. The seats were in incredible condition, just like the photos. I guess Cadillac used good leather back in the day because these were just impressive.
- Power windows worked
- Variable steering ratio was actually pleasant - really picked up as you turned which made the car feel more maneuverable than I expected.
- Tilt/telescoping wheel
- Underneath the body and frame honestly were in really good shape overall. Definitely plenty of surface rust but it was all very solid. Miles ahead of my Caprice, which should go without saying.
- Twilight sentinel and I think it may have had the Guide-Matic
That's about it.
Cons:
- He said the AC worked (and to his credit was converted to R134a) but the compressor did not turn on.
- Horn did not work, despite two new horns. Probably needs a relay or the switch in the steering wheel.
- Rear filler missing between the rear bumper and the trunk
- Pretty good sized dent like from backing into a pole in the center of the rear bumper. He mentioned this originally and I should have pulled the string on it.
- Paint was not as good as I expected with some matching issues in places.
- All of the doors had varying degrees of rust on the bottom/inside edge which was really the only corrosion problem I'd say the car had. But it didn't look that great in several places.
- Front cornering light housings were both smashed in the corners
- Top was alright except it had many tears and he put glue in it to keep water from getting under it.
- Driver's door panel with the seat controls was flopping around - common problem he said....so just fix it dude.
- Headliner sagging and was stapled up all over the place. It hit my head while driving and was a real turn off even though I know this is very common.
- Power seats did work but also like would move and then stop (like a breaker was tripping). They'd move again if you hit the switch.
- No recline of any kind??? This isn't his fault but I don't know what Cadillac was thinking. Power recline mandatory.
- Clock did not work
- Radio was analog tuning, not one of the upgrade radios (one of the SIX available)
- Brakes had a lot of travel
- E-brake cable sagging. I am sure the rear calipers needed TLC.
- Tremendous dead zone in the steering. I think this was probably all in the box. There is no way in hell Cadillac shipped these cars with that kind of play so I don't buy that argument.
- I did not really like the way the car felt inside. The seating position was low, the seats squished through the pillow rather than being supportive, and I thought it was cramped front and back. I think Cadillac managed to wrangle more interior room on the 93-96 body style.
- Wetness on the torque converter cover, oil pan, trans pan and trans cross member. At this point, do I take his word that it only needs valve cover gaskets? Or who knows??
- Filthy engine bay. That's when it really hit. This car is a driver and if it wasn't for the immaculate seats, it would qualify as a beater. I don't really understand the story but it seems to have taken quite a bit of damage on the exterior over only 73k. It was not the clean well cared for original that I thought it was. I think this is more a $2000 car.
It did not speak to me. I could not see or justify this car in my driveway nor was I excited, at all, about rectifying the issues that it had. I don't think I really even want an old car at this point. I think I am back to the 90s. Old stuff just isn't my thing. It makes that clean Fleetwood with the damaged front fender, bumper and cornering light look like something I should reconsider.
Aside from the time, it cost me a lot of money to learn this lesson. Probably $85 in fuel and almost the same in tolls. No regrets and the feeling of relief when I did not buy it says it all.
Pros:
- Started, ran and drove well. It was actually very satisfying to drive at part throttle and off the line. It is amazing what it accomplished with a 2.28 rear. Lots of torque right off idle. Flooring it left me underwhelmed as I expected but this car would have no trouble keeping up with modern traffic. The trans shifted exactly as it should at WOT, just firm enough to not feel like it wouldn't last but still comfortable. Great powertrain overall.
- Seat condition. The seats were in incredible condition, just like the photos. I guess Cadillac used good leather back in the day because these were just impressive.
- Power windows worked
- Variable steering ratio was actually pleasant - really picked up as you turned which made the car feel more maneuverable than I expected.
- Tilt/telescoping wheel
- Underneath the body and frame honestly were in really good shape overall. Definitely plenty of surface rust but it was all very solid. Miles ahead of my Caprice, which should go without saying.
- Twilight sentinel and I think it may have had the Guide-Matic
That's about it.
Cons:
- He said the AC worked (and to his credit was converted to R134a) but the compressor did not turn on.
- Horn did not work, despite two new horns. Probably needs a relay or the switch in the steering wheel.
- Rear filler missing between the rear bumper and the trunk
- Pretty good sized dent like from backing into a pole in the center of the rear bumper. He mentioned this originally and I should have pulled the string on it.
- Paint was not as good as I expected with some matching issues in places.
- All of the doors had varying degrees of rust on the bottom/inside edge which was really the only corrosion problem I'd say the car had. But it didn't look that great in several places.
- Front cornering light housings were both smashed in the corners
- Top was alright except it had many tears and he put glue in it to keep water from getting under it.
- Driver's door panel with the seat controls was flopping around - common problem he said....so just fix it dude.
- Headliner sagging and was stapled up all over the place. It hit my head while driving and was a real turn off even though I know this is very common.
- Power seats did work but also like would move and then stop (like a breaker was tripping). They'd move again if you hit the switch.
- No recline of any kind??? This isn't his fault but I don't know what Cadillac was thinking. Power recline mandatory.
- Clock did not work
- Radio was analog tuning, not one of the upgrade radios (one of the SIX available)
- Brakes had a lot of travel
- E-brake cable sagging. I am sure the rear calipers needed TLC.
- Tremendous dead zone in the steering. I think this was probably all in the box. There is no way in hell Cadillac shipped these cars with that kind of play so I don't buy that argument.
- I did not really like the way the car felt inside. The seating position was low, the seats squished through the pillow rather than being supportive, and I thought it was cramped front and back. I think Cadillac managed to wrangle more interior room on the 93-96 body style.
- Wetness on the torque converter cover, oil pan, trans pan and trans cross member. At this point, do I take his word that it only needs valve cover gaskets? Or who knows??
- Filthy engine bay. That's when it really hit. This car is a driver and if it wasn't for the immaculate seats, it would qualify as a beater. I don't really understand the story but it seems to have taken quite a bit of damage on the exterior over only 73k. It was not the clean well cared for original that I thought it was. I think this is more a $2000 car.
It did not speak to me. I could not see or justify this car in my driveway nor was I excited, at all, about rectifying the issues that it had. I don't think I really even want an old car at this point. I think I am back to the 90s. Old stuff just isn't my thing. It makes that clean Fleetwood with the damaged front fender, bumper and cornering light look like something I should reconsider.
Aside from the time, it cost me a lot of money to learn this lesson. Probably $85 in fuel and almost the same in tolls. No regrets and the feeling of relief when I did not buy it says it all.
Last edited by kevm14 on Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Added info on door rust
Reason: Added info on door rust
Re: Caprice engine swap?
I have some initial comments on the trip/car that may evolve as I think about it.
1st - $160 is way less than a $3,000 mistake. Definitely should not feel like because you traveled, you should compound that 165 loss with another bad investment.
I think this car was misrepresented, either naively or on purpose to an extent. Not sure which. Maybe both. Interior and drive quality was good. Exterior was not. Sure rust was minimal, but, every panel had a problem. Paint on trunk was 2 colors, both bumpers dented, directional broken/cracked, passenger side was sideswiped or something and doors at least on the drivers side were rotted at the bottoms. Hood had a dent, and the top had multiple rips.
I was surprised at how nice it drove. That was nice. I guess that may still get old after the likely 10 to 12mpgs...
This car might have been somewhere between $1,500 and $3,000 as a novelty daily driver, but it would have been thousands to have made right, which would never be worth it. Fine to drive as is and accept the fault but not if you don't really like it.
1st - $160 is way less than a $3,000 mistake. Definitely should not feel like because you traveled, you should compound that 165 loss with another bad investment.
I think this car was misrepresented, either naively or on purpose to an extent. Not sure which. Maybe both. Interior and drive quality was good. Exterior was not. Sure rust was minimal, but, every panel had a problem. Paint on trunk was 2 colors, both bumpers dented, directional broken/cracked, passenger side was sideswiped or something and doors at least on the drivers side were rotted at the bottoms. Hood had a dent, and the top had multiple rips.
I was surprised at how nice it drove. That was nice. I guess that may still get old after the likely 10 to 12mpgs...
This car might have been somewhere between $1,500 and $3,000 as a novelty daily driver, but it would have been thousands to have made right, which would never be worth it. Fine to drive as is and accept the fault but not if you don't really like it.