Hating on the Focus RS

[kevm14]

http://www.motortrend.com/news/watch-fo ... C62E31112B

I am sure it is the same video.

[kevm14]

And it'll be pretty embarrassing when a V6 1LE gets damn close to an RS, for less money. A V6 Camaro! And why shouldn't it? It weighs 20 lbs less than the RS and has only 15 less hp.

I'll be waiting for the Lightning Lap.

Lightning Lap is out. Lots to discuss. First order of business: come back to this thread and look at how all my claims about the Camaro V6 1LE stack up against the Focus RS.

Let's start with some specs.

Note about the prices: The base price indicated in the Lightning Lap include all performance enhancing options.

As a reminder, all the base prices you see on the following pages include perform­ance-enhancing options, such as carbon-ceramic brake rotors, lightweight components, performance tires, and even high-bolstered thrones.

So we can safely just compare base prices since everything else does not result in faster lap times. Sounds fair.

Focus RS base price: $38,765
Camaro V6 1LE base price: $34,495

Focus RS has 350 hp
Camaro V6 1LE has 335 hp

Focus RS weight: 3,451 lbs
Camaro V6 1LE weight: 3,516 lbs

Focus RS: AWD
Camaro V6 1LE: RWD

So what does the Focus RS do with an extra 15 hp, 65 fewer pounds, all wheel drive, and an extra $4,270 in cost?

It runs the Lightning Lap 0.1 seconds faster than the Camaro. Zero point one.

Which means I was right.

That said, the Focus RS does look like a very fun car to drive. But unless you are really going to drop $38k on a Focus, I'm not sure the "hatchback practicality" is a real benefit. So I think it is fair to look at the RS as a performance car and compare it to other performance cars. And from a pure performance standpoint, it is good, but the only thing slower in LL2 was the Audi TTS (the only LL3 car it beat was the Lexus GS F). It does not upset like the GM cars in this test (and previous tests) have. Which is all I have been trying to say about the car this entire thread. It is good, but over-hyped.

[bill25]

Yeah, the RS costs more, but what were you right about? The V6 1LE is good, and the RS is better, so the RS isn't bad, which means I was right.

All this time you have been talking up how good the V6 Camaro is, and how bad the RS is, and the RS beat the best version of the V6, not by much but still, it was better. So how can the V6 Camaro non 1LE be so awesome, and the RS is garbage. That is insane, and you are right?

The RS has more room, and AWD and handles better/faster on a track. You also said the RS weighs more, which it doesn't. What were you right about? It isn't faster than 90K cars? Ok you were right...

What were the track times of cars in it's class: EVO, STI, GTI?

[kevm14]

Wow, it's even funnier: The Focus RS was on Pilot Sport Cup 2's!! Tirerack says that is a "streetable track and competition" tire. I believe these are the optional uber tires that the Z07 package gets. The Camaro was on Goodyear Eagle F1 "max performance summer" which is a step down. Normally the Focus RS comes with Pilot Super Sports so this must have been an optional upgrade. 0.1 seconds with a better tire...and AWD. And more power. And less weight. I am not blown away here.

[bill25]

I think the fact that Ford managed to engineer a 4 cylinder with AWD. And more power. And less weight into a platform is a plus, not a negative. Especially when you are comparing it to a platform (Alpha) that was designed from the ground up for performance, handling and weight reduction.

[kevm14]

You don't "engineer in AWD.". You engineer requirements which are "performance" in the context of this conversation. You're argument is similar to German car fans who put down the cheaper, smaller and more reliable small block because they apparently want a Rube Goldberg device. More shit to accomplish the same thing is a con, not a pro.

Make no mistake, the Focus RS isn't just a normal car with some power and AWD. They did everything they could on that platform to make it perform. And I am saying I am underwhelmed with the result - as a performance car. Best performance case for the Focus RS from a numbers standpoint is that for an extra 4 grand you can keep the performance of a V6 1LE but with 4 doors and a hatch. In theory that is a strong argument. In practice, I don't think the market will agree. Not that the V6 1LE is going to do big numbers either....

[bill25]

You don't "engineer in AWD.". You engineer requirements which are "performance" in the context of this conversation. You're argument is similar to German car fans who put down the cheaper, smaller and more reliable small block because they apparently want a Rube Goldberg device. More shit to accomplish the same thing is a con, not a pro.

When you are talking about reducing weight, adding components like AWD is part of the engineering discussion.

[kevm14]

That is true and we both know the Focus RS is probably faster around a track with AWD than it would be with FWD. But it only needed the AWD in the first place because of starting with a Focus! I will reiterate one last time: It took an awful lot of stuff including better tires and $4,300 for the same result as a V6 Camaro (which probably rides better, too). Yes it started as a Focus and the Camaro is Alpha but you end up with a more expensive car with the Focus despite the very mundane roots.

The RS outperforms its class but that's about it. It is not in the same league of upset that many of the GM iron is - I think it is too expensive. That said, I am happy Ford has such a good car in a class owned my Subaru and Mitsubishi for such a long time.

[Bob]

This is probably the most comprehensive video review I have seen of the Focus RS to date:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owBCy5g4a9w&t=4s

Also, it looks like these guys do a really good job in general. I'm excited to watch some of their other stuff.

[kevm14]

Agreed on all counts. This guy was great - I feel like his approach and dissection of the car match the way I had been judging it (without having one in front of me obviously).

Definitely took the car down a peg for those who think of it as a poor man's GT-R or something. In the spirit of his own approach though, I wish he compared to some stellar chassis champs at $40k (I'm obviously looking at the Camaro here). He says it is fast through corners, but did not try to make objective comparisons. That's ok, we have objective comparisons. A 1LE V6 Camaro is just as capable. Maybe more capable on the same tire.

I also appreciate the comment about it not feeling special for $40k. That I think is filed under "don't get old or don't meet your heros.". It is fun to think that simply owning the car would always be its own reward but unless it is your first high performance car, that is not likely to hold any long term value.

He correctly dissected that this is a cheap car with a lot of upgrades; the fact that it is NOT "OMG rally car" as I mockingly mentioned earlier in this thread.

He also took a shot at the supposed practicality. Yeah it is a 5 door hatch and the trunk part is ok but the rear seats are cramped. Numerous aspects of the car appear to be tuned to attempt to impress the uninformed and I cannot respect that. I am talking about the terrible ride quality and especially the UNUSABLE sport mode. And what the hell is up with that floppy-ass gas pedal? That is awful.

There is much more that I liked but it is late so this is good for now.

This car just doesn't really do anything for me, and that was reinforced by watching this well-produced video. You are not going to find this kind of attention to detail in other reviews (they put it on a goddamn lift). Opinions can and do vary but I think what he says here has a lot of credibility in the way it was presented.