Repair-It

In the Camaro's defense, the new generation "IROC" rims look great in pictures.

Yeah I like it. The Mustang is just way more "styled." I don't think that necessarily translates to having more "style," though. It just has more design features, angles, cuts, etc. I have consistently preferred more conservative shapes, and that goes back probably 20 years, to my first real understanding that I am more of a sleeper kind of car enthusiast. I remember clearly identifying it in my garage talking to a neighborhood friend. I may have been...12? 14? Not sure. Anyway, we were talking cars and we still had the 83 Caprice wagon in the garage. My friend basically was making the point (like I think is more the norm) that he'd rather have a Ferrari with an 83 Caprice engine, and I'd rather have the 83 Caprice with the Ferrari engine. I'd rather go fast than look fast. I guess you can have a discussion about doing both, but I just like the powertrain to speak for the car, not anything else. Maybe it's because I grew up with boring cars. I wasn't exposed in any way that something like a 69 Camaro was a cool car. Just zero muscle exposure.

I generally agree, because I don't like getting pulled over, but as a car enthusiast, I like the whole package, looks and performance. Not to say there aren't nice looking sleepers.

So here's an issue.

Gen 5 SS: Something about the grill combined with the headlight styling just never did it for me. The grill itself is fine. The headlights themselves are fine. Then I realized what the issue was.
1985 Chevy Spectrum. My parents had one brand new.

I got to LAX today and there were a lot of good choices: 2016 Camaros, 2015 Camaro convertibles, Hemi Charger, Challengers, Maximas, an Infiniti QX50. There were 3 2016 Camaros on the lot and I checked them all to see if I could find one with the 4 cylinder, mainly because I wanted to contrast it with the V6 I just had in the Bay Area. They were all V6s and identically equipped so I just took the one with the lowest mileage. I have to say I really like this car! I thought about the Hemi Charger for a second, but the Camaro is just more satisfying to drive.

I realize this article is old, but I just read it yesterday when it was reposted for the fourth: http://jalopnik.com/a-basic-2016-chevro ... 1745827833

The article echoes a lot of the things I have been saying about the V6 Camaro and its fundamental goodness.

It does sound like a nice daily driver for the enthusiast. But the V6 is much easier to swallow on an ATS where you don't have the built-in expectation for it to sound like a drag strip everywhere you go.

It's also interesting to read how the latest model Camaro, Mustang and Challenger feel to various writers. You read a Challenger article and they say, wow, this has the space the others don't and handles much better than it used to, plus it looks awesome. You read a Mustang article and they say, wow, this is the perfect blend of muscle and sport - it's not unwieldy like the Challenger but not a cave like the Camaro. Then you read a Camaro article and they say, wow, this is a league above the Mustang in terms of sports car poise and the SS significantly outperforms it, too.

It turns out they all have something to offer.

But in my opinion, the Camaro SS is the winner of that group. If you are going to give up 4 doors, the Camaro SS is the most sporty AND has the best numbers (and sounds amazing). I will never understand someone who says they got the Challenger because it had more room - buy a goddamn Charger then. And if we talk Charger, I am going to throw the Chevrolet SS in the ring and have the same (but different) conversation all over again.

I will never understand someone who says they got the Challenger because it had more room - buy a goddamn Charger then.

No you won't, because you will never understand why someone would buy the same exact car "just" because it looks way better. Who cares that it has 2 doors? This 2 door bullshit is only acceptable in a discussion where you have a car seat. Otherwise, I don't understand why kids can't get back there, especially with the room of the Challenger.

The extreme of what you are saying is that if you have kids, you need a minivan. Ridiculous.

kevm14 wrote:It does sound like a nice daily driver for the enthusiast. But the V6 is much easier to swallow on an ATS where you don't have the built-in expectation for it to sound like a drag strip everywhere you go.

I think if you can get past the Camaro not having a V8, it's actually a very competent car and dare I say the best new sports coupe for less than $30k.

billgiacheri wrote:No you won't, because you will never understand why someone would buy the same exact car "just" because it looks way better. Who cares that it has 2 doors? This 2 door bullshit is only acceptable in a discussion where you have a car seat. Otherwise, I don't understand why kids can't get back there, especially with the room of the Challenger.

2 door muscle cars make no sense to me. I understand 2 door in the context of providing something you can't get with 4 doors. Like the Elise. Can't duplicate with 4 doors. Or how about a C5/6/7 Z06 (you are going to pay a lot more for that performance with 4 doors, and it will still be heavier). Or even the Camaro SS. You CAN duplicate a Camaro SS in a sedan - the ATS-V. However, you are paying almost twice the price!

So, I understand sports cars is what I am saying.

I also understand muscle sedans. We had these in the 60s but we had modern ones as recently as the 90s Impala SS. More recently, the Charger makes the Challenger unnecessary. Yes I am discounting appearance as a criteria, but mostly because I don't think the Challenger is miles ahead of the Charger in terms of styling. I never lusted after a 2 door muscle car of any generation and I bet Bob was the same, which is why we have similar opinions on this. Passengers and especially child seats in the back of a 2 door car is just pointless to me. In most cases the legroom is atrocious. In all cases, having to crawl through an open driver or passenger door around a seatbelt - come on. I can't give that a pass. To me that died in the 80s and definitely the 90s.

Sales wise, the Camaro sold 93.4% of the Mustang since 2009 calendar year up through the first half of 2016. Pretty close. The Challenger sold 54.6% of the Mustang in those same years. The Charger, which is the only vehicle here that really has an exact 4 door analog at the same price, sold 98% of Mustang sales (or 1.8x Challenger sales). I'm not willing to say these numbers strongly prove my point but maybe they generally support it.