Repair-It

I was going to do a spec-based drivability and performance assessment between these cars based on some key data, such as:

5-60. Basic snap response from a slow roll can differentiate a lot of powertrains.

1/4 mile trap speed. Probably my favorite single metric. Basically a HP/weight number but based on reality because it is measured, rather than trying to calculate HP/weight. Lots of variables get sorted right out with this number. Tells you passing power (accel from a roll) and basically the total acceleration potential of the car minus the actual launch.

30-50, 50-70 and other brief passing times. Or add them together to get an idea. Should mostly flow with 1/4 mile trap speed but some variables can impact this at certain speeds, namely trans ratios and overall drivetrain responsiveness. I think on auto cars the kick-down is counted in the time so it matters. Trap speed alone won't tell you this as you are just running up through the gears from a launch at WOT.

Why do I care about all this? Because 6 grand is still a lot of money. And I can't see buying a car that is supposed to have "performance" that doesn't even trap 100. It's kind of a minimum.

Then again I still have my CTS-V.

This is exactly why I see this as a hot rod platform as opposed to keeping it stock. Ultimate sleeper especially since it isn't a V. Nobody is expecting that this would actually be fast. I would go through and remove anything that added weight that I didn't care about and totally do a turbo LS swap.

I am not talking about removing heat or AC or anything stupid. I hear that you could get a V, but those are like 15-18K ish, and I am thinking that if you got one of these for 4, you should be able to swap it for less and have more power.


If you buy one for 4-5K running, how much is the Northstar worth? The trans? - sell them for the LS motor and 4L80. Possibly make money or break even. Buy CTS-V motor mounts and possibly sub frame, and computer.

Now I have to figure out how to get it to be inspected.

This sounds like a solid plan substantially cheaper than a STS-V with more power... Still not cheap though.

Cheapest STS-V's within 500 miles on AT:
08, 126k, $14,222
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale ... lCode1=STS

07, 89k, $14,487
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale ... lCode1=STS

06, 76k, $15,788
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale ... lCode1=STS

Increasing radius to anywhere, since traveling or shipping to save a couple thousand can make sense. In this case, it doesn't buy much.
06, 96k, $14,000
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale ... lCode1=STS

Cars.com is the same story with a 500 mile radius. But, increasing, and we do save a few $k.

06, 104k, $12,787
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/deta ... /overview/

06, 127k, $12,990
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/deta ... /overview/

06, 117k, $13,995
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/deta ... /overview/

CL didn't turn up much, except these two. Again I was looking to beat the $15k prices you listed earlier which I agree is the typical range.

07, no miles listed, $13,900
https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/6049367462.html

The real score, if you want to take a chance is this:
06, 125k, $9999
https://norfolk.craigslist.org/cto/6066339399.html

I did have a long, wordy ad up here for a while, but I've shortened it so that you just get the basics.

2006 Cadillac STS-V
500 ish crank HP
Supercharged 4.4L Northstar V8
Auto trans
124k ish miles

Runs, shifts, and drives great. Pretty fast. Daily driver, so miles will keep going up. Rare car. Cold air intake, exhaust, brakes, and wheels/tires are aftermarket. It's not perfect, but it runs and drives great. Been my daily for 3+ years, only selling because I have a project I'm itching to get started on.

CEL is on for gutted cats, I have a scanner (or bring your own) and you can check the codes yourself.

Take it home on the 20s, but you'll also take home the factory wheels (front tires need replaced), factory air intake, and engine cover as well. Engine cover won't fit over the CAI without modifying, and I didn't want to mess with it. Also engine covers are terrible for heat soak. Arrangements can be made for you to pick up the OEM stuff at a later date.

This is the last time I'm dropping the price, and I'm not budging a penny. You won't find this car for less than this anywhere. NADA and KBB don't reflect that you're getting two sets of rims, and don't account for rarity, but even so I'm pricing it better than both.

Charles Barker Toyota has a 2007 right now with 90k miles, they want $16,900. If you can deal with a few more miles, you can save a boatload of money for the same car. Only better, because you're getting two sets of wheels, intake, exhaust, and brakes already done.

I'm not looking for trades of any sort, cars or otherwise. I'm not looking for help selling, and I'm not looking for some sort of crack deal, payment takeover, or anything else. Come at me with bank check or cash, or don't come at me at all. Email is good, text is better, if you call you're going to voicemail, and I'll call you back at my convenience. Lien is held by Navy Federal.

Thanks for looking!

I wish I could stretch my $6k to $10k. I don't know that I could justify two Vs though that is kind of cool I guess. Though it is not really a $10k car because I guess it needs cats, or programming. Navy Fed lien is interesting but not surprising for the area (Virginia Beach).

By his own screenshots, it is priced at KBB private or NADA trade-in depending on which you look at.

It is obviously quite possible to just tune the rear O2 codes right out:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/4- ... c3-v8.html

$500 buys HP Tuners and everything you need to turn the codes off. It comes with 8 credits and it's only 2 credits for a specific vehicle/VIN. And then you'd have HP Tuners, and an additional 6 credits.

I have visions of videos about "I bought the cheapest STS-V on CL and here's how it went."

Wow - over 300k! https://boone.craigslist.org/cto/6078970502.html Also has the "his/hers" shifter.

I don't know what that shifter is or why two people would possibly be involved with shifting the vehicle.

But that is a good price. It is probably FE1, but I could get a VIN.

Current mood: Lacrosse Super

I'd absolutely love to drive both back to back. Theoretically that is possible as the STS is not totally uncommon, so I could likely do it. I think there still is a local Super.

Reasons I still think the Super is in the conversation:
- So rare! Not the Lacrosse, but the Super as a trim level is incredibly rare. It is about as rare as the STS-V.
- No options nonsense. They are all basically the same. I like the brown w/ mocha interior. Yup.
- Faster. I'd like to see if the real world agrees with the magazines, but the magazines say 4 tenths and 4 mph. If it turns out STS V8s fulfill their promise and trap 97 but Lacrosses only manage 98 or 99, well, that may change things. I need the data. And to drive them and see what the butt dyno says. It's not like the Northstar is like an LS for bolt-ons.
- FWD. Not that I love FWD. I don't. But I have a neutral handling RWD car in the garage. For my commute, I need more basic grip and acceleration. I think the Super would meet requirements. And the FWD is going to work better in the snow, not that I can't handle a RWD car in the snow. I feel more comfortable putting Jamie in a FWD car even though the chance of that happening is small.
- I just think the Super is more special than the STS. And it is. The Super trim on the Lacrosse is like the V trim on the STS. The STS V8 just isn't that interesting as a performance car. It is a NICE car, yes.

I could avoid all this by driving both. I think it would be simple:
- Either the ride, handling and features of the STS V8 would prove out (if I can even find my RWD 1SG)
- Or the speed and more special nature of the Super would speak to me more

Basically if the Super feels like a crusty old W-body, then that's one thing. But it sounds like they made it halfway decent.

Reliability.
- F55 shocks for the STS are damn pricey.
- Northstar I think is fairly solid but I have heard of timing chain tensioner issues which can bleed oil pressure and starve the bottom end. I have no idea how common this is.
- LS4 is solid except the DoD/AFM stuff isn't 100% bulletproof unfortunately. Working on the LS4 transverse setup isn't the same as working on the engine in my Caprice so let's not kid ourselves. Working on the Northstar is also terrible.
- I trust the 5L50 in the STS a lot more than the 4T65E-HD in the Super

I don't know if either car has a clear advantage. I'd like to give the Super the nod due to fewer features and probably lower parts replacement prices.

I am going to drive the CTS-V to work tomorrow. I think it is possible that the Super may make more sense to add to my fleet, than a larger/heavier/heavily-optioned version of my CTS-V.

Here's a monkey wrench: I have said before that I also am fascinated by the idea of an HHR SS with auto and the GM Stage engine upgrade for 290 hp. That might be faster than the Super! In fact probably a few ticks faster like 13.9 @ 103 or in that range. And get the best fuel economy of the trio. The HHR has no more features than my Caprice and is a compact car inside. That part I don't like. I also don't think it will fit as a backup car for Jamie as the back seat is cramped. But as my price range has moved up I have to recall all the things I liked previously.

Basically I am trying to find my favorite unloved GM mid-2000s car that has some kind of performance.

Let's see if I can make some categories or, gasp, requirements. I'll try ranking qualitatively from best to worst in each category.

1) Notionally around $6k but whatever. This is just a number but I probably can't go way up past this. Or maybe I can. -All
2) I'd like to trap 100 as sort of the gold standard of anything that can qualify as remotely fast these days. 20 years ago (or a little more), an LT1 F-body trapped 100. And I had one in 2004. I am not asking too much given the progression of cars to have this performance in 2017 in an affordable daily driver. -HHR SS post Stage 1 upgrade*, Super, STS
3) Reliability/serviceability. I am not opposed to working on things but the time adds up and so do the dollars spent. Less is better, but I am not expecting to get to zero - if that was the #1 priority I'd have a car with a warranty. -Uhh...HHR SS, Super, STS
4) I prefer larger cars, some luxury crap and I'd prefer a back seat that didn't totally suck. -STS, Super, HHR SS
5) I like some kind of handling performance. FE1 need not apply. -All
6) Rare GM mid-2000s crap that no one cares about. The rarer and less people care about it, the better. I'm half kidding but only half. I'd just like a vehicle I am familiar with. I know a lot about mid-2000s GM cars I guess is what I am saying. -All

* an HHR SS auto without the Stage 1 kit is likely on par with the STS, moving from first place to last place.

So far I have done well with #1, #5 and #6. Though I'd argue that for #6, the Super and HHR SS tie for the win, and the STS loses. #2-#4 is where things get hairy between the cars.

If I give the best a 3, the middle a 2 and the worst a 1, and the "all" items a 3, the rankings add up like this:
- STS V8: 14
- Super: 15
- HHR SS w/ GM Stage 1 upgrade kit: 16

If I really want to do this right I need to add weights to each. Also importantly, the Super is never last in any category, where both the HHR SS and STS find themselves last in at least one category (once for the HHR SS and twice for the STS).

Or said differently, the STS is too slow and potentially expensive to repair. The HHR SS is too small and has like zero luxury things. So they both get struck.

G8 GT? I thought Bill found a cheap one the other day. Overall I am not sure these are really in my price range.

The DoD/AFM stuff is making me a little nervous. Applies to the Super as well.

I think I could support a higher mile, pre-modded G8 GT (DoD delete, tune, etc.). I will have to judge by the condition how much life it has left. One that looks like it was meticulously maintained likely was. Powertrain exercise is fine - putting it away wet, so to speak, is the issue.

G8 GT gives the space, not the luxury. It is a good spiritual replacement for my Caprice. But 13.8 @ 104 bone stock! With a select few mods, that thing would give my CTS-V a run! I wish that goddamn STS V8 was faster. That's what sent me on this tangent.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/200 ... ily-page-2

Not loving the grinding understeer commentary. Sigh.