Caprice engine swap?

[kevm14]

Talking to the son. Scribbling notes. Will edit later. This is crazy.

78 has some paint chipping
Back bumper has dent
He uses regularly. Antique insurance. Last year, year and half. Rust wise should be good.
$2950 is like a bare bottom price. His dad wanted him to list for more like $5500 (more like what I'd think it was worth) but he just wants to move the cars.

Selling a bunch. His father collects. I think at least one of the next ones are the sons. The 78 is the dad's.

Has a 76 Fleetwood
76 Seville. Caddy 500 swap. Cloth. Perfect condition. His lawyer owned since new, bought 20 years ago. $2500 tops
57 Cadillac 4 door, ink blue. Elvis' garderner's car. Has paperwork proving. This will be pricey.
81 Trans Am, 5.0 4-speed, fully restored.
79 450SL Mercedes.
97 Lexus LX450

All in family for long time. His mom says they need to go, or most of them.

[kevm14]

Carb
Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance
VIN: 6B69S8Q196515

Stu

Brand new choke pull out
Original paint. All original.
New tail light fillers
New master cylinder
New water pump, lower hose and clamps
Coolant
EGR cleaned
Plugs, wires
Muffler, pipe
New sending unit
A/C receiver dryer, not sure if converters. A/C works.
Cruise works
8 track works
Power locks, dual power seats, windows
New high beam switch
Rear air shocks
New battery
Good used tires, probably should do an alignment
Alternator
73k

Last May put on road. Bought from estate sale/undertaker. 10-15 years ago.

Not available Sat afternoon.

[kevm14]

I believe this is the 76.

https://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/6052493266.html

1976 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham,loaded,bought it 32 years ago - $5500 (Lakewood New Jersey)
One of a kind! Drives beautiful!
I bought this car close to 32 years ago for my wife, and in the last 20 years I've been driving it once in a blue. Mechanically it has many new parts. It is fully loaded with every option.
I had it repainted, all the moldings and stuff like that are in the trunk. Putting it back together little by little. Exterior is white and interior is red.
$5,500 obo or I would make a trade for a newer car

Sort of...not that presentable as it sits. But that's a big car.

[kevm14]

VIN: 6B69S8Q196515

VINs did not standardize on 17 digits until 1981.

VIN decode:
6 = Cadillac
B69 = Fleetwood?
S = 425 carb (EFI would have been VIN T)
8 = 1978
Q = Detroit plant

The rest is a sequence number. Not that exciting overall.

[kevm14]

$2950 is like a bare bottom price. His dad wanted him to list for more like $5500 (more like what I'd think it was worth) but he just wants to move the cars.

He's been honest with me so far, so I think I have a few more questions, mostly mechanical:
- Engine/trans/misc fluid leaks
- Paint (checking/cracking, 20 foot car when washed?, etc.)
- Front bumper tweak on driver's side?
- Trans health - fluid/filter done ever? I don't know how to ask him this, but is it going to survive WOT shifts? I don't buy cars that can only be driven at 1/4 throttle without breaking - I don't care what it is.
- He mentioned alignment - how bad is the tire worn from, I think he said camber?
- Do the radio/speakers all work?
- Curiosity on my part: does it have power recliners? That was an additional option I guess. I would bet yes. This seems fairly loaded.
- Does he have the title?

Fun fact: I looked up shocks at Rockauto. Among many options, it lists an AC Delco Professional 5309 front shock for $31. That number seemed really familiar. I searched my e-mail and, yep, that is exactly the replacement shock I got for my 95 Fleetwood. Ordered June 2008. This is the listed compatibility:

BUICK CENTURION 1971-1973
BUICK ELECTRA 1971-1984
BUICK ESTATE WAGON 1971-1983
BUICK LESABRE 1971-1985
BUICK RIVIERA 1971-1978
BUICK ROADMASTER 1991-1996
CADILLAC BROUGHAM 1987-1992
CADILLAC COMMERCIAL CHASSIS 1977-1984
CADILLAC DEVILLE 1977-1984
CADILLAC FLEETWOOD 1977-1996
CHEVROLET BEL AIR 1965-1981
CHEVROLET BISCAYNE 1971-1972
CHEVROLET BROOKWOOD 1969-1972
CHEVROLET CAMARO 1970-1981
CHEVROLET CAPRICE 1966-1996
CHEVROLET IMPALA 1965-1996
CHEVROLET KINGSWOOD 1969-1972
CHEVROLET TOWNSMAN 1969-1972
OLDSMOBILE 98 1971-1984
OLDSMOBILE CUSTOM CRUISER 1971-1992
OLDSMOBILE DELTA 88 1971-1985
PONTIAC BONNEVILLE 1971-1981
PONTIAC CATALINA 1971-1981
PONTIAC FIREBIRD 1970-1981
PONTIAC GRAND SAFARI 1971-1978
PONTIAC LAURENTIAN 1976-1981
PONTIAC PARISIENNE 1976-1986
PONTIAC SAFARI 1987-1989

Translation: if it can be bolted on, it is compatible. Clearly there is no tuned shock valving, these are just a certain way and that's what you get. I was never that impressed with them on my Fleetwood. I'd have liked a little more damping, even with FE1.

For the most part, all steering and suspension looks compatible up to 1996. There may be some SAE vs metric bolt stuff that happened in the late 70s that could change compatibility for certain components.

[kevm14]

Listed compatibility for rear rotors:

BUICK ESTATE WAGON 1977-1979
BUICK LESABRE 1977-1979
BUICK RIVIERA 1977-1978
CADILLAC DEVILLE 1977-1979
CADILLAC FLEETWOOD 1977-1979
CADILLAC SEVILLE 1977-1979

Wow didn't know they did Buicks, too. Though it says DeVille and the DeVille got drums...

Now this is wild. If Rockauto isn't lying to me, the rear discs on the 77-79 D-bodies used the same pads as the front! It looks like the same caliper design, but with a 2.5" piston instead of a 3" like on the front. That is kind of crazy but more like crazy brilliant. The irony is, this is probably a better design than the rear calipers on the 94-96 B-body because I've never had slide pin problems on the front of my Caprice. Pads are cheap and plentiful. Actually the rotors are cheap, too.

There are also a lot of references to "4 wheel ABS" in the brake listings.

[kevm14]

I'd really love to find archived test reviews of the 77-79 Fleetwood.

[Bob]

I'd really love to find archived test reviews of the 77-79 Fleetwood.

I might have something for you. I have some vintage C&Ds from this era.

[kevm14]

LOL

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationt ... 9S8Q196515

So much info. I put the VIN in and they decoded it for me. This would have been nice to have earlier today...

[kevm14]

This all makes sense, I just don't really understand the D body as the "Future Hotrod"

I was thinking more about this lately. If I end up really liking this car, I think I might do more with it than just drive it stock and sell it. Or, I may decide that I don't like it and want a different B/D-body to hang onto long term and sell it. But if I keep it, I think this could totally work. I believe the wheels are 5x5 pattern...EDIT: according to research they are definitely 5x5. Compatibility among GM vehicles is pretty long, including from like the 50s. In the 77+ B-body, only the wagons and maybe other heavier cars got the 5x5 but all RWD Cadillacs did. In 91, all B/D-bodies were 5x5. This also crosses over into 1/2 ton trucks, at least up until the GMT-400 in 1988.

Here is what a 90-92 looks like with the SS wheels:

1664957724_9dfb7444db_b.jpg

I think it looks pretty good actually.

Just for the record, the 93-96 (95-96 shown) looks damn good with them, since someone commented on that recently (probably Bryan):

DSCF0646.jpg

Finally found an older Fleetwood on SS wheels. And I think this looks pretty cool. There is still plenty of sidewall meat with 17s.

caddyshow.jpg~original.jpg

Anyway, it is a D-body so I can do whatever I want with it. I don't know that I'd go full Caprice suspension but I could definitely do something with it. I don't think it is totally out of the question to add a bunch of power and a 4L80E...I am definitely warming up to the idea. The 93-96 is cool, because it already comes with fairly modern hardware but then if I was going to eventually rip it out anyway, why not start with something even older and even less common, but that still sits on the same chassis/platform?

I think these older bodies can pull off 17s easily especially with the rise of the Pro Touring segment. It easily fits into that. The trick by the way is to get smooth center caps, and not run the standard Impala SS ones. I think these can be procured from a number of sources and many 90s Cadillac center caps fit. This was common back in the day with SS wheels on the 93-96 FWB. It does make a difference. Every car pictured above is running different Cadillac center caps, not stock Impala SS center caps (which is what I currently have).